We find purpose in life through our work. We spend half of our waking life at work. Wouldn’t it be great to find purpose and meaning while getting stuff done?
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Welcome to the remarkable leadership podcast. We are here each week to help you lead more confidently and make a bigger difference. Both professionally and personally, this episode is sponsored by Kevin’s free weekly newsletter unleashing your remarkable potential, which is full of articles and resources to help you become a more confident and successful leader. Sign up by going to remarkablepodcast.com/newsletter. And now here’s your host, Kevin.
Good day, everyone. Welcome to another live with Kevin and other remarkable podcast, remarkable leadership podcast. Let me ask you a couple of questions. Or would you like to be happier and more productive? Would you like to learn what the most successful people do to create both of those things at the same time? If so, here in the right place. Welcome to another live episode of the remarkable leadership podcast. You can get all future live episodes and therefore interact with us and see them sooner. If you’re a podcast listener and you’re hearing this later, you could be getting it sooner by being with us live and you can learn all about how to do that by going to our Facebook or LinkedIn groups, just go to remarkablepodcast.com/facebook, where you can actually watch them directly or go to remarkablepodcast.com/linkedin. We’d love to have you join us there, but while you’re here, especially if you’re here live, I imagine I would like you to imagine that you’re joining my guest and I for a cup of coffee or tea in my case.
Please share your questions, your comments, your ideas, cause I’ll share them out with my guest and they’ll make for a better conversation and eventually a better podcast as well. Today’s episode is brought to you by remarkable masterclasses. Each month we release a new skill and an advanced form of a master class format. Each designed to help you become the remarkable leader and human you were born to be. Details on how to get on board for a specific skill or to get discounts each month can be found remarkablemasterclass.com. And with that, let me bring in my guest. There he is. If you’re here with us live, you can now see his smiling face. His name is Dr. Roger Hall. Let me introduce him. And then we will dive in. Dr. Roger Hall is the author of Staying Happy, Being Productive. The 10 big things successful people do.
And the book expedition as well. He is a business psychologist with clients all over the country. He has one trick. Roger, are you, does it mean you’re a one trick pony. He has one trick. He trains leaders to monitor and manage their thinking. Great leaders work on themselves first and then success in their companies. Follow his clients are entrepreneurs, professionals, business owners. He is especially qualified to help entrepreneurs who’ve had a financial event, that’s a positive financial event, find meaning, purpose and happiness for the next phase of their lives. He has had the chance to consult and speak with all sorts of groups from judges in federal courts, to people in the intelligence community company, owners, executives, university, faculty, to social workers, teachers, nurses, and to construction workers, landscapers and box makers. And now to all of you here live and on the remarkable leadership podcast, his, he loves his work as a keynote speaker for financial services companies and more. He received his doctorate in psychology from Ohio State University in 1991. He is currently an executive coach for the Robert Wood Johnson foundation, clinical scholars program. He and his wife live outside of Boise, Idaho. But today he is in Columbus, Ohio. Now the home of The Ohio State University. Roger welcome. I’m so glad that he was chuckling about that because we were talking about the, The Ohio State versus Ohio State and he was giving me the history of all that. So Roger, welcome. I’m glad you’re here.
Oh, I’m grateful to be here, Kevin. Thank you.
It is a pleasure. And for those of you that are here with us live, you, you know what, whatever, whatever platform that you’re on, that you’re watching this live. You can send a question, send a comment, let us know where you’re from. In fact, just tell us you now know that Roger’s from Boise. And then I live in Indianapolis. So you could tell us where you are as well. And if you’re watching later on one of the social channels, you can still ask your questions, we’ll see them. And if we get a chance, we’ll ask, Roger gave you some answers, send you some links to some resources or whatever. So enough of that, Roger I want to start by doing what I almost always do, which is ask people to tell us about their journey. You know, I know that you grew up with a father who was a professor but you probably didn’t grow up thinking you were going to become a clinical business psychologist.
That’s correct. That was the furthest thing from my mind. My dad was a professor of agriculture. And so I’m a long way from home in this profession. And I had absolutely no no idea. I would become a psychologist. One day. I was a communication undergrad and went to talk to one of my professors about how do I apply what I’m learning in real life? And he said, well, you get a PhD in psychology. And I said, well, what about a PhD in communication? And he says, no, you then you’d be like me. And I said, well, is that so bad? And he said, yeah, I hate my job. And so I marched over to the department of psychology and added a double major in an afternoon and spent a year working on that. I applied to graduate school in all the wrong ways. What I really wanted to do was help healthy people do better to reach their peak performance. So I’ve always been a student of attitude, change and persuasion. And so I’m in the business of attitude change and persuasion.
And your trick is training leaders to monitor and manage their thinking. So in the book, we talk about that a little bit. You talk about 10 skills from our lives and one of them is our thought life. And so I thought we’d start there since you, since your bio says that that’s your one trick we should talk about. What do you, what, first of all, what do you mean by monitoring our thoughts? Let’s just start there.
Yeah. Let’s go to the way back machine and the way back machine we’ll go back to ancient philosophy. And one of your previous guests talked about the stoic philosophers and the stoic philosophers are guys like Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus, and all of them talked about the importance of disciplining, your thoughts. And in the 1950s, a guy named Albert Ellis, who’s one of the fathers of cognitive behavioral therapy. He and Aaron Beck kind of share that and share that honor, but Ellis was reading the stoic philosophers and he got, he said, I got so much more help from reading these guys. Who’ve been dead for 2,500 years than I did from Freud and young that I decided to create a psychotherapy based on it. And principally what, what Seneca and Epictetus and Marcus really has said is that if you discipline your thinking, the emotions will follow suit. And what we know now about our basic brain biology is that our brains are put together in such a way that the most reliable, it’s not the only way, but the most reliable way to manage unpleasant emotions or unproductive behaviors is to first work on the thoughts that drive all that.
Okay, stop right there. Yeah, sure. You got, because some people are listening to this while they’re exercising on a podcast, sometime from now, I need you. I need you to say that again. And I need everyone to stop all the multitasking and hear it because this is so important. Say that again.
So the way our, the way our brains are put together is that the most reliable way, not the only way, but the most reliable way to manage unpleasant emotions and unproductive behaviors is to monitor and manage the thoughts that drive that. So we all have a stream of consciousness that’s running through our head at all, all the time. We’re telling ourselves things all day long and very few of us ever stick a label or a bucket in that stream of consciousness to see what’s in there. And so great leaders, great thinkers are monitoring, and in my business we call it metacognition. It’s thinking about your thinking, but you don’t need to use a fancy word. You just, you just stick the bucket in the stream of consciousness and sample what’s in there. And when I do that with the leaders I work with, most of them find that there’s garbage swimming in their stream of consciousness. And our job is to then strain out the garbage and clean up the stream of consciousness,
Man, I, so first of all, I’m going to, just, for all of you who are watching or listening, I always figure there’s, there’s always, when I do this at least one moment, like, okay, that’s worth the whole show. We just had one of them and we’re not even nine minutes in. I know we just got started, but my point is, if for all of you that are there that are listening or watching like that is, is so critically important. And, and, and it’s, it’s important because you’re hearing it from someone that really knows what he’s talking about from the research, not just from someone like me, who would say that, and you say, okay, well that’s just Kevin or whatever. This is what the science tells us. And that’s why it’s so very important. And it’s one of the many reasons why I wanted to have you on. And I already said that we are talking to you about your new book, or it’s not really that new now. And of course, depending on when someone watches or listens to us, it could be really old, But still really relevant, staying happy, being productive. And you can do them both at once. Yes. Amazingly, some people think, well, I could do one or I could do the other, but you’re saying we could do both. And you say that there are 10 things that we could do. And one of them is to understand our thought life, to think about that too. I love the metaphor, dip the bucket into the stream. Love that. Promise I would steal that. [inaudible]
Attribute it to you, Roger, but I’ll use that. Let’s just do good now. So there are, there are, well, let me just say one more thing about that before we go on. So, okay. We don’t, most of us aren’t looking at what’s in the stream. We’re not monitoring or noticing it, but once we’ve done that, how does it help us? Once I pulled the bucket out and I look at what’s in there, like, how does that help me?
Well, you know, when we, when we talk about happiness, when we talk about productivity, happiness is an emotion, productivity is behavior, right? And so, so if you want to have a happier life, and when I say happy, I don’t mean entertained or fun, but which are, which are both pretty important, but happiness is really about purpose and meaning in life. The ancient philosophers called it eudaemonia, which is different than hedonism. Hedonism is the pursuit of pleasure. Eudaemonia is the pursuit of meaning and purpose.
This is the Declaration of independence meaning.
Yes, fundamentally, the pursuit of happiness, the pursuit of meaning. Yes, so when we look at really happy people, they first get their thinking, right. Then the emotions follow, then the behavior follows. I mean, the, the reason you do this is because you feel miserable all the time, or you’re doing stupid stuff that makes you have a, a less good life. And this is the, the most reliable pivot point to change that. And it’s not, it’s not complicated. Let me use that word. It’s not complicated to do, but it is hard because you really, I mean, it’s, it’s like pushups. Everybody can know what to do with a pushup, but doing them and doing them repeatedly. That’s the hard part,
Indeed. So the book has 10 of these areas thought life being one and being the first one as it turns out. So what I thought we would do is that we will pick two. I’m going to pick one that you do that for all the rest of you. You don’t know that I’m going to, he knows that I’m going to pick it. He has no one doing any of this. Actually. I thought I’d pick one and then you could pick another one, whichever one you feel led to in this moment. Sure. Everyone, whatever. I don’t care, use, whatever criteria you want after I picked the one I’m going to pick, are you up for that? Goodness. So here’s it. And so here’s, here’s Roger. He’s thinking what this Kevin picking what I wonder and because you’re so smart, you’re probably going to like, have all sorts of reasons why Kevin picked it, but here it is, we’re going to talk about our sleep life.
Yes.
Cause that’s the one you are going to pick
If I was going to add it. Yes.
All right. So, all right. So 10 big things. You could talk about 40 things that we could all work on. This is one of your picks. So first of all, why did you pick this as one of the most important things that we need to get better at? And then one of the, one of the things that really truly successful people are good at. Yeah.
Yeah. So it’s called sleep and rest life. So there are two parts of it. But we’ll, let’s focus on sleep right now. The reason I’m glad you chose this, is that when people say, well, which one should I start with first? Cause there’s 10. I always say, work on your sleep. First. Now I lived much of my adult life. You know, I was in college, I was in graduate school. I stayed up late. You know, I used to stay up till two in the morning working and being real productive, getting up and, and, and, and surviving on, on you know, six hours of sleep. And that was because I was in my twenties and I had a lot of capacity to recover. But what I have found is, and I’ve used, I used to view, sleep as income, completely inefficient. You know, like, why do I have to sleep this long?
It’s so inefficient. And the more I learn about sleep, the more I realize that if I want to be effective in my life, I have to get good sleep. And here’s why when you sleep, your brain is recovering and repairing. So there are these chemicals that get dumped into your brain while you’re asleep. One of the they’re called neurotrophins, which means built building neurons, neurotrophins, and there’s one called it’s a long name. It’s called brain derived, neurotrophic factor BDNF. And this is the thing that your brain secretes, while you’re asleep to help the neurons grow and repair. So every day your brain is taking a hit and it needs to grow and repair. Now here’s the interesting thing is your brain is growing all the time throughout your life. You’re, you’re constantly growing and repairing your brain and you need BDNF and the other neurotrophins to help it grow and repair much of that’s done at night.
Now, here’s the other interesting thing. This is relatively new research is all of your body has blood going to it except the brain. So there’s a there’s, there’s this stuff called cerebral spinal fluid. So there’s no blood actually touching brain cells. It passes through the, the cerebral spinal fluid. And so the exchange is not as efficient with blood, but at night. And this is really weird, your brain kind of contracts and expands. So it’s like a sponge going back and forth. And what it’s doing is it’s moving all the EQ that gets stuck in your brain during the day through the cerebral spinal fluid to get rid of it. So you actually need sleep for your brain to get rid of the waste products and repair and recover. So, so you want to be healthy. You want to be happy. You want to avoid dementia in old age, get good sleep.
All right, we can mic drop right there, everybody. So I got to put this note up. I happen to know this gentlemen, hello, Bruce. He says, I need Roger to ship me a filter. The more experienced I get, the more floats Sam in the street. That’s been there for a minute, but I wanted to wait to let you finish on your, on your piece there. So thank you, Bruce. Exactly. So here’s the question. How do we know if we’re sleep deprived?
So there, there there’s a book it’s written by a guy named William demand. He’s one of the fathers of sleep research. It’s an older book, but, but he says that if you can fall asleep in less than 15 minutes, you’re sleep deprived. The old, besides your dog, guilty, guilty, right beside your dog, the only person in your house, who’s not sleep is eight years old. Cause you tell your eight year old, go to bed. Snippy. You’ll fall asleep soon and they call out five minutes later. I’m still nose to the MP. You’ll fall asleep. And eventually 15 minutes later, they fall asleep. But if you can fall asleep in less than 15 minutes, you’re sleep deprived and demand has this little experiment. He says, get a plate and a fork. I know like this doesn’t make sense. Just hear me out and lay down on your couch, put the plate next to your hand, holding the fork, look at your watch and then close your eyes. He says, when you fall asleep, your hand will relax. Let go of the fork. It’ll hit the plate. It’ll rattle, it’ll wake you up. And then you’ll know how long till sleep onset occurs.
Okay. So now I don’t know if this is true or not. But the, the story that I’ve heard more than once, which still doesn’t necessarily make it true is that Thomas Edison would lay down to take a nap. I would sit down to take a nap. Have you heard this story? He had a heavy ball in his hand and he would hold on to it. And that when he relaxed enough for it to fall and hit the ground, he just for a different purpose. But it’s the same idea. When the ball hit the ground, it would wake him up and he would write down what ever he was thinking because he was using that as a, as a creativity stimulation thing. I’m sure it’s connected in the same in some way. You want to, again, everybody, I’m not saying that that’s actually happened. I have read it more than once, but I’ve also learned that sometimes things aren’t always what we’ve heard.
Well, I, you know, I don’t know that about Thomas Edison, but I do know that that, that, that time between sleep and wake your idea, I mean, your associations are really loose and some creative ideas do come. There’s lots and lots of apocryphal stories about people who came up with scientific revolutions in their dreams. And so there’s a lot to be said about the importance of getting good sleep. And again, I mean, it illustrates that you want to have great ideas. You want to be productive in whatever you do, make sure you’re getting good sleep because that’s, that’s how you recover and recharge.
All right. The big question just came in. Yeah.
Does it happen in that? What’s
The role of naps here?
Yeah. So you know, the United States is, is one of those few and, and, and Northern Europe are those few cultures that don’t have a midday nap. Like if you went to Barcelona, you you’d be taking a nap in the middle of the day. You’d be eaten at nine o’clock at night and you’d be going to bed late. There are lots and lots of cultures that sleep in the middle of the day. So naps are fine. Here’s the problem with naps is, is that if you sleep for too long, you’ll get into a stage of sleep that you can’t get out of easily. And so you’re grumpy and groggy for the rest of the day. Now we’ve all, we’ve all experienced that we wake up and it’s like a Hoff. I take a nap. I’m just dead for the rest of the day. Well, yeah, it’s because you slept two, yeah, two hours.
You’re in a very deep stage of sleep. And it’s really hard to Rouse out of that. And there are about five different stages of sleep you get in, in the hard to Rouse stage. And, and you’re just a grumpy, lethargic mess for the rest of the day, 20 minutes to maybe an hour, you’re probably good on an app. And so if you nap knock yourself out, it’s good for you. Prior to the advent of electricity, people used to go to bed when it was dark. They’d wake up in the middle of the night, they’d talk to their bed partner for a couple hours. They’d fall back asleep and wake up in the morning, which is why they have like 14 kids. But that’s another, that’s a different pod, the love life chapter. But but if, if we, if we look at that, people used to sleep differently than we do now. But however, your sleep cycle goes, your mom was right as an adult, you need about eight hours of good sleep per night in order to go through all the different sleep cycles.
So we’ve got a comment that says I’m always sharper in the morning. That’s certainly need, and that’s connected, but that’s not true for everybody. Right? Different people have different cycles or
Right. Everybody has a different cycle, but, but yes, I find that to be true for me as well, that if I want to do my best work, I do it in the morning. And I encourage people that I work with not to focus on time management, but to focus on energy and attention management and do all of your best work, your most important work in the time when your concentration is sharpest
At your best, you put what I call your power time. Absolutely
Prescribe it. Yeah.
Rebecca asked this question, what about regular use of melatonin?
Yeah. So melatonin is a precursor to a thing that helps you. It’s part of the sleep cycle. So your body will convert melatonin into other things like any, anything. If you take it continuously, your body, which manufacturers, melatonin and manufacturers, all of the other neurotransmitters will say, Hey, there’s plenty of this in our system. There’s no reason for us to make anymore. We’ll use our resources to do something else. What does that sound like? Well, when the factory shut down, making your own melatonin, when you withdraw melatonin that you buy from the store, what happens? Well, the factories are shut down. You’re going to have, what’s called rebound insomnia. So melatonin is helpful in the short run, but if it is a, if it is used, long-term your brain and your body will say, Hey, there’s so much around. We don’t need to make anymore. And then when you stop taking it or you run out, you get rebounded insomnia, and then you think, gosh, I got to take more. And so you get in this cycle of becoming dependent on melatonin for good sleep. Now, again, helpful in the short run, probably not great in the long run.
It just reminds me if people don’t know what Roger’s describing. Just think about everything that you experienced during the pandemic, when, when things weren’t available and then the long-term withdrawal of us getting shingles and whatever else back, because it wasn’t being made for a while. Same thing, same thing. It’s a supply and demand. It’s logistics. It’s a logistics issue
System. Is it? It is working the lump in the pipeline. Exactly.
So, so I simplified by saying our sleep life. You said our sleeping rest. So talk about rest a little bit, and then I’m gonna let you pick whatever other one you wanna talk.
Yeah. I’m so I’m so glad you reminded me to get to the rest life. So much of our life is busy and you know, you, you, you’re listening to podcasts, casts. You’re, you’re, you’re watching live streams, whatever you’re doing, you’re, you’re a busy person. Well, our brains are designed for rest, quiet reflection, contemplation meditation, mindfulness. And so each of us needs time each day and time each week to do. And here’s, this is gonna drive some of you crazy to do nothing. And people say, well, like you mean reading a book? No, that’s a cognitively complex task. Well, what about watching TV? No, that’s a cognitively complex task. Maybe not as complex, cognitively complex, listening to music, all of that. I mean, doing nothing, you can sit on your porch and watch the wind blow through the trees. And if you do that for five minutes, that’s fantastic.
You know, we all know that feeling when we’re sitting at the beach, watching the waves come in and we have no responsibilities, it’s almost hypnotic. Or if we’re, we’re watching a fire, you know, we’re watching a bonfire and we’re watching the flames and it’s almost hypnotic that’s because the rhythm of the waves and the movement of the, of the flames puts us into an altered state of consciousness. It’s a contemplative state. It’s some people call it fixed attention meditation. And so, so we need that every day for our brain to recharge and recover.
I love it. I love it. By the way, I’ll pick the fire over the waves and don’t have any problem with the waves, but I like the fire. So there’s another question that came in about, okay. So our melatonin person is also asking about calcium and magnesium. Your comment about that quickly.
I’m not as smart about that kind of supplementation. I think calcium and magnesium are important for every every cellular communication. So on a cellular level, we need calcium and magnesium potassium and chlorine to, to make our nervous system go. So it, it, it’s worthwhile to see if you need supplementation. And again, I can’t give, I can’t give recommendations to particular individuals talk to a nutritionist, talk to someone who’s smart about nutrition, but calcium and magnesium are really, really important. And, we’ll touch on it though. This isn’t the, the area I want to focus on, which is nutritional life, which is each of us needs to take in good food and good nutrition to fuel our bodies and calcium. Magnesium is one example of that.
So I’m going to let you pick your I’m going to put a couple of comments in we’ve said, someone’s. She said, she’s going to kick her melatonin gummy habit for now. When one says, you’re talking about this, this risk piece exercise, and I’m just stopping and looking at the trees, right?
Absolutely. spend time looking at the trees exercises, one of the, one of the big 10 that, that the, the cheapest least invasive way to improve your mood is to get daily, regular exercise. You want to, you want to be happy, move your body.
So I said, you could pick one Thought life. We’ve talking about rest and sleep and rest life. You mentioned nutritional life. You mentioned love life. W what, what are you going to pick for us to take five minutes or so to dive into
Let’s talk about work-life, and I’ll touch on love life and work life. If we look at the, at the the, the Harvard study of men, which is a study of men from the 1930s up till today, most of the guys are dead. They’re now studying their wives and their kids. But in his book, the triumph of experience that the author, George Vaillant, who, who, who was the curator of, of this study, pretty much said the two most important things are, do you have a strong primary love relationship? So, so your love life, the people who are in your immediate family, your immediate circle, but the second piece was the importance of work life. And, and if you’re looking for purpose and meaning in your life having a vocation that you enjoy or some purpose for your life is vitally important.
When they studied these men in the Harvard study of men, they compared Harvard, Harvard, Harvard students with guys in Boston, who weren’t at Harvard, and they fought, you know, in the, in the forties, these Harvard men would be more successful, more happy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, they did have more money, but they weren’t at all more happy or more fulfilled with purpose. And so what, what, what they found, and what I’ve I’ve seen is that we find purpose in our life, typically in our work and half of our waking life is done at work. Now, if you have a soul crushing job, start looking for another job. Now, I I’m, I’m really blessed Kevin, because my work is also, I find purpose in it. Many people work just to make a buck and they find their purpose elsewhere. Well, that’s fine. But it’s important that you find your purpose elsewhere.
And, and when, when we look at why work is so important is there’s a researcher. His name is Mihai chick sent me, hi, ye I’m not making that up. I used to butcher his name and then a Hungarian woman spelled it out for me. And so his name is Mihai chick sent me hi, ye and just look just type in M I H a L Y and Google will auto complete it. You don’t have to, you don’t have to spell it. What he talked about and he introduced the concept of flow. And what he said was when you’re concentrating on solving a challenging problem in your domain of expertise, you lose the sense of time. You lose a sense that you’re different than your work. And what he found is that people are happy when they experience flow every day or nearly every day.
So if you want to have life satisfaction, then it’s, it’s concentrating on a problem. That’s challenging in your domain of expertise. So for me, when I’m solving a people problem or an idea, problem, I’m in flow. When I’m talking to you, I’m in flow. When I’m giving a speech, I’m in flow. When I’m solving plumbing problems, I am never in flow because I’m not skilled in that area. So it creates anxiety for me now, I sure hope my plumber is experiencing flow. And, you know, that’s where he experienced his flow. And that’s why he’s good at his job. And this is why I’m lousy at plumbing. And so it’s finding that, that, that set of activities where you can concentrate and solve the kinds of problems that you’d like. And if you can make a living doing that rock on.
So there’s this interesting comment has come in and, and we probably don’t have time to go into this very deeply, but I think it’s useful. Have you heard research into retirees, those who had hobbies, et cetera, phased into retired life phasing the retirement live longer generally than those that just stopped working and loose purpose?
Yeah. the, the, the, the study, most people refer to as a study in England of people. And it, it, it said that people who didn’t have a productive activity after retirement died about five years after retirement, there’s a confound in that study, in that the people who were retiring may have had had, you know, comorbid health problems. And that’s why they retired. But I have, I have looked at people who’ve retired and I am not a fan of retirement, which is, if you have productive capacity, if your brain is sharp and you’re able to contribute, why would you stop working? So you can buy an RV drive around and in six months be bored again, what is
Something that you do for fun?
I like to be outside. I, I live next to the Boise national forest. So two days ago, my wife and I went for a hike with our dog. If I can get out in the outdoors, I feel great. And I love to read, so those, those are, those are the two things I like to do for, and I like, I love movies. I love the movies. So I’ll be glad to get back to the movie theater.
Well, the one question I told you, I was going to ask you relates to reading. So tell us something you’re reading. You’ve given us a couple of great books already here, but what’s something you’re reading now.
Right? So my wife read a book about world war two and Winston Churchill, and the battle of Britain called the splendid and the vile and the author contrast look at Churchill, and then the the Nazi leadership and as a student of attitude, change persuasion I’m, I’m interested, you know, about the, the way that gerbils, the, the minister of propaganda changed people’s attitudes. So right now I’m, I’m reading a book called how propaganda works to, to figure out how, how did national leaders change the mindset of all of these people. And I think in the, in the, in the research I’ve done on attitude change, it doesn’t matter your political affiliation if your left right or center that the techniques are all the same. And so I I’m, I’m, I just find it interesting. How do we influence people for the good, and so I’m reading how propaganda works after having read the splendid in the vile.
Perfect. So we’ve got two books, we’ll put a, both in the we’ll put them both in the show notes for the podcast. So when it comes out and hope that you will take a look this, by the way, Roger doing this podcast every week is one of the most expensive habits I have. I’m not going to say anymore, you already figured it out. Okay. So the question now you’ve been wanting me to ask since the beginning, what that means is I don’t have many that many, that many other vices, at least not ones that are expensive except perhaps in tractors, but that’s a whole, that’s a whole other,
That’s a whole different order.
A whole different conversation. So what, where can you point people? I know that, you know, I’ll hold the book up for people that are watching where can people learn more? Find out more about what you’re up to. I know you’ve got a course that you wanna share with people. Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. So the book staying happy, being productive, the big, big 10 things successful people do is available on Amazon. It’s also available on my website, which is drrogerhall.com. Or you can go straight to order the book at stayinghappybeingproductive.com. I have an online course to help people overcome fear called freak out, fear, less live more because in this last year I had been helping people screw their heads back on, right. Because everybody has been freaking out. And so it’s a four session, 10 hours of material to help people not freak out.
So if you feel like you’re freaking out, that’s the place to go. You can get everything. You can start at drrogerhall.com and find everything from there. Hope you’ll do that. Roger, thank you for being here.
Oh, I’m so grateful Kevin, to be invited. Thanks so much.
Before We go, though, I have a question for, and so don’t leave quite yet. Roger, before we go, I’ve got a question for everybody else. Whether you’re watching live, you’re watching later, whether you’re listening later, I don’t care. I have a question for you. If you’ve been with us to this point, the question is now, what, what are you going to do as a result of this? Maybe you’re going to say, I’m going to take a nap. Maybe you’re going to say, I’m going to dip the bucket into the stream and get a sense about what my thoughts are. Maybe you’re going to look for some moments of quiet. There’s a hundred things that we’ve, that came up today that you could make as your action point. I just noted a few of the things that were obvious that came up as we went. I hope that you will take a chance to do that, because if you don’t do that, there really wasn’t much value in, in joining Roger and I is as much fun as he and I had doing it. And so now I will say again, Roger, thank you so much for being here,
Kevin. I am grateful to be invited, and I love that, that, that takeaway what’s the, what’s the thing you’re going do now.
Love it. And with that, everybody, that’s another episode, both live on a Monday as well as on the podcast. Hope that you will come back again. I’ll be back live again next week, and we’ll be back every week with another episode of the remarkable leadership podcast. Thanks everybody.
